I can haz writing meta feminist rage?

[gelbes_gilatier]

First, let me say something: I know I have slashers in my flist and before I get to the core of the issue here, I'd like to say that I respect you and your writing very much, mostly because you're awesome people and because you have a very deep and reflective stance towards writing slash and because, as far as I know, when you write boy slash you don't make the mistake of eliminating all and every female character from your stories (have I ever told you how much I love you for making Laura Cadman a very important person for your Lorne, bluflamingo or how much I love your writing because so many of your Newcomers are women, despite the series having heavy slashy under- and overtones, scherryzade? ;)). The following text is in no way meant to insult you or belittle your writing. Still... I had to write it.

Because, see, today I discovered a very long article (as in, a whole page) on slashers in the German major (left-leaning) newspaper Berliner Zeitung and because I was overjoyed to see that such an established and important newspaper took a look at fanfiction and even gave it a whole page, I started to read it... only to start frowning after about three phrases.

It wasn't really the usual "Those people are nuts and we don't really know what to do with them but someone said we have to do an article on them." attitude because they really tried not to let it show. It also wasn't the fact that they chose to portray a 55 year old female teacher who writes RPF slash (Viggo Mortensen and Sean Bean, in case anyone is interested) and makes money with writing gay porn books (publishing them under a male pseudonym, by the way), although yes, I do find RPF pretty yucky. No, what really got to me was that further down, she tried to sell writing gay porn as something feminist. She didn't actually use the word but this quote pretty much says it:

"Würde eine derart große Subkultur von Männern entstehen, würde das niemals ignoriert. Aber wir? Offensichtlich hält man uns für frustrierte Hausfrauen mittleren Alters, die für Schauspieler schwärmen. Natürlich, die sind auch dabei, aber gleichzeitig erleben wir eine Revolution weiblicher Sexualität." Lena kommt richtig in Fahrt: "Unsere Foren sind die einzigen Räume, in denen Pornografie von Frauen für Frauen entsteht. Für alle Frauen, für Frauen jedes Alters, für Frauen aus allen sozialen Schichten, für Frauen jeglicher sexuellen Ausrichtung. Gemeinsam und international produzieren wir Pornografie."*

*"If there were such a big subculture of men, it would never be ignored. But us? Obviously, they only think we're frustrated middle-aged house wives who have a crush on actors. Of course we also have those but at the same time we experience a revolution of female sexuality." Lena starts to become passionate, "Our message boards are the only places were pornography by women for women is created. For all women, women of every age, women from all social classes, for women of all sexual preferences. Together and internationally, we produce pornography."

While I have to agree with her about the female dominance in fanfiction and the consequences, I really disagree about women writing gay pornography as a revolution of female sexuality. I'm not a slasher and I don't read (boy) slash, mostly because I don't see sense in reading fiction that virtually has no women in it, be it porn or other. What's feminist about writing gay porn books under male pseudonyms because otherwise they would never find a publisher? Maybe she doesn't have a problem with it because according to herself, she has a "gay side to her personality" (she's happily married to man and has two daughters and never would call herself a lesbian) but yes, I do.

So... maybe of you could explain to me why it's a great thing for a women to write gay porn under a male pseudonym. Most of all, if the publisher's condidtions are as the following:

Ein Verleger hat ihr einmal die Personen aufgelistet, die in ihren Romanen nicht vorkommen dürfen: Frauen, ältere und alte Männer sowie Transvestiten. Als Lenas Fantasieheld Viggo sich vor dem Sex mit seinem Geliebten Sean einmal ein Kleid überzieht, muss sie dafür kämpfen, dass ihr der Lektor diese Passage nicht streicht.*

*A publisher once listed all persons to her that are not allowed to appear in her books: women, older or old men and transvestites. When Lena's fantasy hero Viggo put on a dress before having sex with his lover Sean, she had to put up a fight that her editor wouldn't eliminate that passage.

(And yes, it also made me go WTF that apparently, you can make money with thinly veiled RPF slash)

Also, this passage made me, a strictly het writer (although even I apparently managed to write a story with strong slashy undertones, or at least that's what one of the readrers's thought... that very nicely illustrated the whole "if you publish a story, it's not your own anymore" to me ;)) frown very, very much:

Die amerikanische Slash-Autorin Dorothy-Rose Devereaux sagt: "Slash bedient sich der männlichen Figuren nur, weil Frauen in der Fiktion mit Männern keinen Sex auf Augenhöhe haben könne, weil ihnen da alle möglichen Rollenmuster dazwischenkommen." In einer Studie zur Slash-Literatur heißt es: "Die homosexuelle Beziehung steht stellvertretend für eine idealisierte heterosexuelle Beziehung, in der gegenseitiger Respekt, Freundschaft und Verständnis für die Wahl des Partners wichtiger sind als das Geschlecht."*

*The American slash author Dorothy-Rose Devereaux says, "Slash only uses male characters because women in fiction can't have sex with men at eye level because all kinds of role patterns come between them." In a study to slash literature it is said, "The homosexual relationship stands for an idealized heterosexual relationship, in which mutual respect, friendship and understanding are more important for choosing your partner than gender."

What the. I don't even. Argh.

Am I the only one who thinks that this is wrong on so many levels? Women can't have sex at eye level in fiction? Never, ever? Never, ever, ever? And the best method to solve this problem is that we eradicate women from fiction? There are no heterosexual relationships in fiction where "mutual respect, friendship and understanding are more important than gender"? Also... the homosexual relationship solely as a substitute for an idealized heterosexual relationship? Isn't this like... wrong (as in "fundamentally and so very much that I don't even have words for it" wrong)? Does this make sense to anyone here?

And then of course the very last paragraph that revealed much more about that woman than everything before:

"Frauen feiern gemeinsam nicht nur ihre zärtliche Hingabe, sondern auch ihre wilde, erobernde, triumphierende Lust am Mann", sagt Lena. Als sie diesen Satz sagt, streckt sie den Rücken, wird ganz groß auf ihrem Stuhl. Da sitzt sie nun stolz zwischen all den Männern, die ihr ganz unbekannt sind und doch so vertraut. Die möglicherweise ihre Geschichten lesen, ohne ihre Geschichte zu kennen. "Vielleicht", sagt Lena und schaut sich noch einmal um, "ist das alles auch meine Rache am Mann."*

*"Together, women don't only celebrate their tender devotion, but also their wild, conquering, triumphant desire of men," says Lena. When she says this phrase, sie straightens her back, becomes tall on the chair. There she's sitting proudly among men whom she doesn't know but who are still so familiar to her. Who probably read her stories without knowing her story. "Maybe," Lena says and takes another look around, "it's just my revenge on men."

Right. Uh-huh. First of all: how are women supposed to celebrate something without having a female reference point in the story? That was always something I never understood and maybe one of you can explain that apparently women aren't important for a story or - even worse - are actually source of irritation because ew, they always automatically mean gender stereotypes and heteronormative role patterns in stories is a reason to celebrate. Second: RPF boy slash as a means of revenge? Whoa, someone really has issues here (and no, just for once, it's not me).

And, finally, why this is aggravating me so much: because this isn't just a minor internet message board article that won't reach that many persons anyway but a one page article in a major newspaper in a city with approximately 4 million inhabitants (and a national capital, at that) that has a print run of about 160.000 copies per day and an estimated readership of roughly 0.4 million people. 'Nuff said?

So, well... any opinions on it? I'm very much interested in them, both from het readers/writers and slash readers/writers. Did I offend anyone (if I did, I'm really, really sorry and would like you to point out to me where that was so I can go and change or at least try and explain it... I really did not mean to offend anyone)? Am I overreacting? Is there a flaw in my reasoning? Please tell me :)

ETA: Damn, now I want to find out where she publishes her stuff to see how much "non-heteronormative" it really is. Because the fact that there are two guys in a sex scene/romance story doesn't automatically mean it's not a heteronormative story...

Comments

[gelbes-gilatier.livejournal.com]

But not because I want to make a feminist statement, even if I'm writing femslash.

Oh, sorry if I made it sound like that! I was just thankful that there are writers who really don't care about gender and neither eliminate nor overemphasise on women in their fiction because they want to make a point.

On the other hand, she's entitled to her opinion about why she does it - I just wish she wouldn't try to make it sound like it must be true for the rest of us!

Yeah, that's probably why it's bugging me so much... they picked out someone from a highly controversional discussed corner of fandom and kind of made it look like that's the majority of fandom and that they're some kind of avantgarde (both in fandom and basically in culture) which just isn't true. I just really don't want to be represented by someone who writes RPS (and out of doubtful reasons at that) :S

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry if I made it sound like that!

You didn't - just that there is kind of an argument to be made that femslash is feminist, in that it puts female desire for women above male desire, though not one that I support (I've just spent the weekend debating feminism with a friend, so I have it on the brain even more than usual!)

they picked out someone from a highly controversional discussed corner of fandom and kind of made it look like that's the majority of fandom and that they're some kind of avantgarde (both in fandom and basically in culture) which just isn't true

I guess it makes for a more interesting article. To me, we're about as interesting as any other writing group, or interest-based hobby group - interesting enough, because I'm a sociologist, and so every group is interesting to me - but not enough to be worth all the attention we occasinally get. And if you're going to take the line of 'wow, look at these whacky women' it doesn't work as well if you use gen or het writers, because that's what most mainstream writers write.

[gelbes-gilatier.livejournal.com]

femslash is feminist, in that it puts female desire for women above male desire

Maybe that's true... but I clearly doubt that's why most of femslash writers write femslash...

And if you're going to take the line of 'wow, look at these whacky women' it doesn't work as well if you use gen or het writers, because that's what most mainstream writers write.

Mh, true. The whacky (I was tempted to write "pathological" out of habit...) is always much more interesting (to journalists, not sociologists... sociologists love all aspects of fandom ;))... but still... Also, they published it on CSD which I thought was kind of unfortunate, seeing who they cited concerning slash in the article.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I clearly doubt that's why most of femslash writers write femslash

Me too. I think most people write about the characters they like best/find most interesting, though I know of at least a couple of people who certainly seem to think of themselves as feminist writers and implicitly better than the rest of us because they write female characters (in het relationships, not femslash). So maybe true for some, but as you say, not most.

Although, there are challenges that push for people to write more female (or BME) characters, which is because their leaders feel there's a lack of these characters being written, which I'd guess comes from the same place as feminism, or the equivalent for characters of colour. So maybe more than we think. I dunno-I did decide that this year I was going to try to write more characters featuring female characters, which have mostly been gen or femslash because I'm not much of a het writer, which is probably related to my feminist identity. I never actually gave it much thought (though *now* I will be!)

[gelbes-gilatier.livejournal.com]

I'm not much of a het writer, which is probably related to my feminist identity.

Funny enough, I've almost seen myself as a feminist... and I'm a strictly gen/het writer (and mostly gen/het reader). I think in the end it's not about the genre that you write but how you write it. There's lots of non-feminist het (and lots of het that makes feminists cry) but I also think that not all femslash is explicitely feminist just because it is femslash (and I still don't think that boy slash without women is anywhere near being feminist, no matter how much they try to tell me it is).

As for me... I'm just trying to get through my stories without stumbling over common pitfalls and try not to put my foot in my mouth over gender stereotypes too much ;)

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

That sentence was supposed to be "I've decided to try to write more female characters, which is probably related to my feminist identity" not "I'm not much of a het writer, which is probably related to my feminist identity." Sorry - that really wasn't clear, and I hope I didn't ofeend you with my failure to accurately construct a sentence - in no way did I mean that someone can't be a het writer and a feminist, which would be a ridiculous claim to make about someone. I'm not much of a het writer because I want my fic to have more gay characters, which is probably partly because I am gay and I don't see gay people in my TV shows (hence why I'd love for Lorne to have been opely gay!) It has nothing to do with me being feminist.

I also think that not all femslash is explicitely feminist just because it is femslash

Couldn't agree more, and you're definitely right, I think, about it being about how you write - there's some horribly anti-feminist fem/slash where it's all about who's the "man" and the "woman," for example.